On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent
Rep. Ilhan Omar, Democrat of Minnesota
Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut
Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb
Click on right here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: On this vacation season, with extra Individuals saying they’re feeling the ache of upper costs, we’ll speak solely with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent.
As Washington winds down 2025, there’s nonetheless lots of unfinished enterprise for Congress and President Trump. And, as Trump’s protection secretary, Pete Hegseth, doubles down on these boat strikes within the Caribbean…
(Start VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Protection Secretary): We’re monitoring them, we’re killing them, and we’ll preserve killing them as long as they’re poisoning our individuals with narcotics so deadly that they’re tantamount to chemical weapons.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … the controversy over whether or not they had been lawful ramps up on Capitol Hill.
We’ll speak with the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Connecticut’s Jim Himes.
Plus, the deportation roundups proceed within the nation’s cities, this time focusing on communities in Minneapolis, together with the congresswoman who represents a lot of the metropolis.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of america): Ilhan Omar is rubbish. She’s rubbish. Her pals are rubbish. These aren’t folks that work.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll speak with Consultant Ilhan Omar.
And, lastly, a serious change to vaccine steerage for newborns beneficial by a panel of advisers chosen by Well being Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
(Start VT)
DR. CODY MEISSNER (Advisory Committee On Immunization Practices): We have now heard do no hurt is an ethical crucial. We’re doing hurt.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb joins us to interrupt all of it down.
It’s all simply forward on Face the Nation.
And we start with the secretary of the treasury, Scott Bessent.
Good to have you ever right here.
SCOTT BESSENT (U.S. Treasury Secretary): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary, lots of people are on the market vacation buying. Right here is how the president described again in April what to anticipate from this season.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of america): Perhaps the youngsters may have two dolls, as a substitute of 30 dolls, you already know? And possibly the 2 dolls will value a few bucks greater than they might usually.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was the president’s prediction then right?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Margaret, it’s really been a really sturdy vacation season, and the – you already know, we’ve seen throughout the – all of the revenue cohorts to this point. And so there’s nothing to say that there are two dolls, as a substitute of 30 dolls.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president was fallacious to foretell decrease numbers of purchases and better costs?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: The economic system has been higher than we thought. We’ve had the 4 – 4 % GDP progress in a few quarters. We’re going to complete the 12 months, regardless of the Schumer shutdown, with 3 % actual GDP progress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the maker of Tonka vans, their CEO stated it’s going to value 40 bucks for his or her toys proper now due to tariffs and inflation. It was 30 bucks the 12 months earlier than that, 25.
Costs within the toy house are accelerating, and persons are feeling that.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, Margaret, inflation is a composite quantity, and it’s roughly the identical 12 months over 12 months. And if we had been to have a look at all imported items, imported items inflation is beneath the inflation quantity.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The inflation quantity, you imply the…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: The PC – the PCE quantity, which is about 2.9 %. Imported items inflation is about 1.8. It’s the service economic system that’s producing inflation, which really has nothing to do with tariffs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However after we hear from, for instance, the president, when he says that affordability is a con job by Democrats, that appears to simply not be resonating with customers which have been polled by CBS.
Sixty % of Individuals polled by this community informed us President Trump makes costs and inflation sound higher than they are surely. And his approval score within the economic system is now right down to 36 % in our newest ballot. On inflation, approval is even decrease, at 32 %.
Don’t it is advisable to present that you simply really feel the ache?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, Margaret, I feel the president’s annoyed by the media protection of what’s occurring and…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure, that is the polling of common Individuals.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: No, no, however – sure, however I feel…
MARGARET BRENNAN: I imply…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: … the typical Individuals, they’re listening to loads from media protection.
And I’ll let you know that affordability has two elements. There’s inflation after which there may be actual incomes. Actual incomes are up about 1 %. And what we’re not going to do is say that Individuals don’t know what they’re feeling. We’ve been engaged on it every single day.
I used to be in your present on March speaking about affordability. The – we’ve made lots of positive aspects, however, keep in mind, we’ve obtained this embedded inflation from the Biden years, the place mainstream media, whether or not it was Greg Ip at “The Wall Street Journal,” poisonous Paul Krugman at “New York Times,” or former Vice Chair Alan Blinder, all stated it was a vibecession, the American individuals don’t understand how good they’ve it.
Now, Democrats created shortage, whether or not it was in power or overregulation, that we at the moment are seeing the – this affordability downside, and I feel, subsequent 12 months, we’re going to maneuver on to prosperity as a result of…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You do suppose there may be an affordability downside?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You do imagine there’s an affordability downside?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Oh, I – I feel the Biden administration created a horrible…
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, however now. We’re practically 12 months in. You stated the president would personal the economic system at this level.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: I – the – the – sure, I stated that the Biden administration created the worst inflation in 50 years, and possibly, for working Individuals, the worst inflation of all time.
And we now have pulled that quantity down, that Strategas Analysis does one thing known as the Widespread Man index. Underneath Biden, the collected inflation quantity, as measured by CPI, was about 20 %. Their index confirmed 35. This 12 months, for the primary time, the Widespread Man index is beneath the inflation index as a result of the basket of products for working Individuals, meals, gasoline, lease, is coming down.
So I wrote an essay March 12, 2024, and it talked concerning the three I’s, immigration…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: … rates of interest and inflation.
Immigrant – mass, unfettered immigration depressed wages, brought about housing costs to go up. The president has closed the border. That’s mounted. Rates of interest have come down. The bond market simply had the most effective 12 months since 2020. And now we’re engaged on inflation. And I anticipate inflation to roll down strongly subsequent 12 months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, I imply, grocery costs are up practically 3 % in comparison with final September.
The president appears to be acknowledging that grocery costs, or at the very least beef costs, are a problem, as a result of he put out this order simply yesterday saying they’re going to research company worth gouging for top beef costs.
Isn’t suing the meals firms the identical factor the Biden administration did, and it didn’t actually work? How is that this any totally different?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, nothing the – nothing the Biden administration did labored.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So why are you doing it?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And the – as a result of this isn’t the identical factor. In the event that they – if they’d carried out this, in the event that they’d carried out it correctly, we’d be in a special spot. And, like, beef is one part. Thanksgiving Turkey was down 16 %.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, I do know you’re engaged on the commerce entrance and for American farmers and the costs that they’re experiencing, that they’re feeling a pinch about not having a market to promote into, essentially.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Not – not anymore.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the agricultural secretary simply stated that the president goes to announce a bridge cost for farmers this week to present them short-term aid whilst you’re engaged on these – finalizing these commerce packages.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, the – the…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: There are these low crop costs, and the soybeans particularly.
I do know you spoke with China’s vice premier Friday. Are they going to hurry buying up?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, they’re not going to hurry buying up. They’re within the cadence that we agreed to. Soybean costs are up about 12 or 15 % for the reason that settlement with the Chinese language. They’re going to purchase 12.5 million metric tons.
However, Margaret, I’m concerned within the agricultural business. I run a soybean farm, and I can let you know…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You personal one. You put money into it.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You personal or make investments a soybean farm.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And other people in my household exit and work on it. I really simply divested it this week as a part of the – my ethics settlement, so I’m out of that enterprise.
However I in all probability know extra about any treasury secretary than – about agriculture for the reason that 1800s. And I can let you know that what farmers want is certainty. And we now have put that in place with this commerce deal, 12.5 million metric tons this 12 months, 25 million metric tons for the following three years for soybeans, additionally sorghum, the – and lumber.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – so, these purchases, simply to make clear, these might be this 12 months? As a result of I heard you say this previous week that a few of the purchases wouldn’t happen till February.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, for the – for the season, so the crop 12 months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The season 12 months?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
However why – if all the things’s wonderful, then why do farmers want a bridge cost from the Agricultural Division?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why would farmers want a bridge cost from the Agriculture Division then?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: As a result of these costs haven’t are available, as a result of the Chinese language really used our soybean farmers as pawns within the commerce negotiations.
And we’re going to create – create this bridge, as a result of, once more, agriculture is all concerning the future. You’ve obtained to begin financing for planning subsequent 12 months, when issues might be superb.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ask you about one thing that was introduced this previous week, the Trump Accounts, and constructing on this idea.
S, dad and mom, as I perceive, are going to have the ability to open these accounts through the Treasury for his or her children. They’re tax-deferred funding autos to U.S. citizen kids below 18, get $1,000 from the federal government for infants born between 2025 and 2028.
So there are going to be restrictions on what the cash can be utilized for, school tuition or their first home. Is that proper?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: No, it’s, the federal authorities for youngsters born within the interval you simply described, goes to place $1,000 into these Trump Accounts. It will likely be invested in a broadly diversified, low-cost index, after which will probably be accessible…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Within the inventory market, in an exchange-traded fund or mutual fund.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: So, in essence, it’s a belief fund. It’s a piece of the American economic system for each baby, and they’re going to be capable to take it out once they’re 18, or they will convert it to a extra IRA-type program and preserve it for his or her retirement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, there gained’t be the restrictions I discussed there about how they use the cash?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
So there was additionally a broadening of this, this previous week, with the Dell Basis…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … making a major funding within the American kids.
So how is that this going to work? Why construction it this fashion, as a substitute of a financial savings account, for instance?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, a financial savings account simply will get curiosity. That is the compounding energy of the inventory market.
As Warren Buffett says, don’t – don’t wager towards the American inventory market. Don’t wager towards the economic system. And that is going to deliver a complete group of recent traders into the market. We’re going to couple it with an enormous quantity of monetary literacy, in order that kids perceive what they personal.
The unimaginable present by Michael and Susan Dell would be the – is a program that philanthropists, foundations can do to high up these accounts. And we expect – we’re already – Treasury is already in discussions with foundations, with main philanthropists to high up these accounts.
It might both be for all kids, or you’ll be able to specify it by zip code, a faculty district, or you are able to do what the Dells did, and say that will probably be – gained’t apply to the zip codes of the highest 20 % of earners.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And extra data goes to be popping out on how one can use this and entry it?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure, within the coming weeks, we’ll do this, after which the official kickoff might be July 5.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Earlier than I allow you to go, I wish to ask you about this huge fraud out in Minnesota, and the state welfare program has been below federal investigation since all the way in which again in 2022.
The president informed you, although, this week, to look into Somalis who – quote – “ripped off that state for billions of dollars.” He stated they contribute nothing. What precisely are you investigating?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, Margaret, to be clear, the preliminary fraud that was found by the IRS, for which I’m the performing commissioner, it was found by IRS Felony Investigations Unit.
This was not an endogenous factor that the state of Minnesota determined. We needed to go in and clear up the mess for them, and that is a part of the continued cleanup. Some huge cash has been transferred the – from the people who dedicated this fraud, together with those that donated to the federal government, governor, donated to Consultant Omar and donated to A.G. Ellison.
However they’ve been transferred to one thing known as MBSes. The – and people are…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mortgage-backed securities? What do you imply?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sorry?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Transferred to what?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: These are cash the bureau companies, and they’re wire switch organizations which are exterior the regulated banking system, and that cash has gone abroad.
And we’re monitoring that, the – each to the Center East and Somalia to see what the makes use of of which have been.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, however you don’t have any proof of that cash getting used to gas terrorism, which is what some conservative writers are alleging?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Properly, that’s why – that’s why it’s an investigation. We began it final week. We’ll see the place it goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: However I can let you know that, you already know, it’s horrible.
You recognize, Consultant Omar tried to downplay it, stated, oh, it was very – – the – it was very robust to understand how this cash ought to – ought to be used.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: She was gaslighting the American individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, we’ll speak to her.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Sure.
However, you already know, while you come to this nation, you bought to be taught which aspect of the street to drive on, you bought to be taught to cease at cease indicators, and you bought to be taught the – to not defraud the American individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, there are many – loads of prison habits from communities effectively past the immigrant neighborhood.
However we’ll discuss this with Consultant Omar shortly.
Thanks, Mr. Secretary.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Good.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be again in a minute. Stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Minnesota Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.
Welcome to this system.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR (D-Minnesota): Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We have now loads to get to with you, however I wish to decide up on the place the treasury secretary simply left off.
He alleged that individuals who had been tied to you or your marketing campaign had been concerned on this broad, brazen scheme to tear off the Minnesota state welfare system. Do you wish to reply to that? Are you aware what he’s referring to?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: I actually don’t, and I don’t suppose the secretary himself understands what he’s referring to.
We clearly had individuals who had been in a position to donate to our marketing campaign that had been concerned. We despatched that cash again a pair years in the past. And, really, I used to be one of many first members of Congress to ship a letter to the secretary of ag asking them to look into what I believed was a reprehensible fraud that was occurring inside the program.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So this was – only for our viewers, the Biden period Justice Division known as it the most important COVID fraud scheme within the nation, and this was pocketing COVID period welfare funds, greater than a billion {dollars} in taxpayer cash that was stolen. It was fairly, fairly stunning.
Of the 87 individuals charged, all however eight are of Somali descent, and that has added to the highlight being put particularly in your neighborhood. Why do you suppose this fraud was allowed to get so widespread?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Properly, I wish to say, you already know, this additionally has an influence on Somalis, as a result of we’re additionally taxpayers in Minnesota.
We additionally might have benefited from this system and the cash that was stolen. And so it’s been actually irritating for individuals to not acknowledge the truth that we’re – you already know, we’re additionally, as Minnesotans, as taxpayers, actually upset and offended concerning the fraud that has occurred.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, do you suppose, although, that there was a failure by the Democratic state authorities to police itself? This can be a brazen fraudulent exercise right here.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure. And that’s what I alluded to in my letter that I had despatched to the secretary of ag was to see the place issues had been going fallacious. How can this sum of money disappear fraudulently with out there being alarms being set off?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: And it’s one thing that, you already know, we now have to proceed to research. We have now to proceed to ask these questions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As a result of, as you already know, one of many preliminary defenses by the group on the coronary heart of the fraud, Feeding Our Future, was to assert the probe was on account of racism. Do you suppose that this was all about negligence, or that it was, like, political concern of alienating the Somali neighborhood?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: So, you need to do not forget that the girl who led this system is a Caucasian lady. And that was her approach of constructing certain that this might proceed to occur through the use of no matter rhetoric that was accessible to her.
We do know that, when the cash was stopped, they did sue the A.G. Lawyer Common Keith Ellison defended the division in that lawsuit. It was a choose that stated it ought to proceed, that cash…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: … ought to proceed to exit. And so this wasn’t one thing that individuals weren’t taking a look at. There was at all times these – these alarms.
And we’ll proceed to know the place issues might need gone fallacious as these investigations proceed and as these fraudsters are prosecuted and despatched to jail.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, it’s going to have influence in your neighborhood, as a result of we’ve already heard that the pinnacle of Medicare and Medicaid say they’re going to have a brand new coverage that applies to Minnesota. You heard the treasury secretary say they’re investigating.
However there’s one other thread right here, as a result of Home Republicans and the treasury secretary simply now talked a few hyperlink to terrorism, a attainable hyperlink. He stated they’re simply now starting to look into it. How assured are you that that’s a false declare?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: I’m fairly assured for the time being, as a result of there are individuals who have been prosecuted and who’ve been sentenced.
If there was a linkage in that – the cash that they’d stolen going to terrorism, then that may be a failure of the FBI and our courtroom system in not figuring that out and mainly charging them with – with these – with these costs.
And so I do know that, for a few years, this form of like alarm that there’s cash being transferred by way of the airport in baggage and going to terrorism has all – that accusation has at all times existed. There has by no means been right here and there in these accusations.
However, if that’s the case, if cash from U.S. tax {dollars} is being despatched to assist with terrorism in Somalia, we wish to know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: And we would like these individuals prosecuted, and we wish to be sure that that doesn’t ever occur once more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there are 80,000 individuals of Somali descent in your state, however the president has been very centered not simply on them, however on you.
On this extraordinary Cupboard assembly, he stated, Somalis – quote – “come from hell, they complain and they do nothing but bitch.”
Take a pay attention.
(Start VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of america): These are folks that do nothing however complain. They complain, and from the place they got here from, they obtained nothing. We don’t need them in our nation. Allow them to return to the place they got here from and repair it.
(KNOCKING SOUND)
(APPLAUSE)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Thanks very a lot, everyone.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That knocking is vehement settlement from his Cupboard members there. I simply marvel what the response is in your district to have that from the best workplace within the land.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: It’s disgusting. It’s utterly disgusting.
These are Individuals that he’s calling rubbish. And we really feel like there may be an unhealthy obsession that he has on the Somali neighborhood and an unhealthy and creepy obsession that he has with me.
I feel additionally it is actually essential for us to do not forget that this type of hateful rhetoric and this stage of dehumanizing can result in harmful actions by individuals who take heed to the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And 95 % of the Somalis in your state are U.S. residents…
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … only for readability there.
However the president has restricted all immigration processing, together with asylum claims from Somalis already on U.S. soil, together with 18 different nations. ICE studies it has rounded up about 19 individuals, and so they put out press releases with the photographs of about 5 of them that they are saying are the worst of the worst.
Is that the whole thing of the crackdown so far?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure, thus far, we all know, of the folks that they’ve picked up in Minnesota, about 5 of them are Somalis.
And from what I’ve learn and from the folks that I’ve spoken to, all of them had already had orders of elimination. So these are usually not people who find themselves undocumented, however individuals who have dedicated crimes and who ought to have already been despatched in another country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ask you one thing else that the architect of the president’s immigration coverage, Stephen Miller, stated.
On Thanksgiving day, he posted: “No magic transformation occurs when failed states cross borders. At scale, migrants and their descendants recreate the conditions and terrors of their broken homelands.”
What do you make of this argument of failure to assimilate and form of ruining America? How do you perceive this?
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: I imply, once I take into consideration Stephen Miller and his white supremacist rhetoric, it jogs my memory…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s the way you hear it.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: Sure.
It jogs my memory of the way in which the Nazis described Jewish individuals in Germany. And, you already know, as we all know, there have been many immigrants who’ve tried to come back to america who’ve turned again, you already know, one among them being Jewish immigrants.
We understand how that individuals had been described who had been coming from Eire, Irish immigrants.
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: We understand how through which individuals had been described again then when there have been Italian immigrants.
And, to me, you already know, we’re – we’re, sure, after all, ethnically Somali. We’re on this nation as Individuals.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ILHAN OMAR: We’re residents. We’re a productive a part of this nation, and we’ll proceed to be.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congresswoman Omar, thanks in your time at the moment.
And we’ll be proper again with much more Face the Nation. Stick with us. You.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We might be proper again with the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut, and former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face the Nation.
We flip now to the highest Democrat on the Home Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes. He joins us this morning from Connecticut.
Welcome again to Face the Nation.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES (D-Connecticut): Thanks for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You might be one of many few lawmakers proven the labeled model of this September 2 video of the U.S. strikes on an alleged drug boat close to Venezuela, 4 strikes in whole, we now have discovered.
You met with Admiral Bradley, who instructions Particular Operations, as effectively. The president of america says he’s open to this video being made public. Do you suppose it’s important that it turn out to be public, and are you assured will probably be?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: I feel it’s actually essential that this video be made public. It’s not misplaced on anybody, after all, that the interpretation of the video, which, you already know, six or seven of us had a chance to see final week, broke down exactly on celebration strains.
And so that is an occasion through which I feel the American public wants to evaluate for itself. I understand how the general public goes to be react – goes to react, as a result of I felt my very own response.
You recognize, I’ve spent years taking a look at movies of deadly motion taken, typically within the terrorism context. And this video was profoundly shaking – shaken. And I feel it’s essential for Individuals to see it, as a result of, look, there’s a specific amount of sympathy on the market for going after drug runners.
However I feel it’s actually essential that individuals see what it seems like when the total power america army is turned on two guys who’re clinging to a bit of wooden and about to go below, simply in order that they’ve form of a visceral really feel for what it’s that we’re doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was it – why did it shake you a lot? What particularly was bothering you?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, you already know, and that is form of the excellence, and there’s loads to unpack right here about whether or not that is a licensed army motion, which it’s not, and proper on down as to if these had been respectable – respectable targets, and so they weren’t.
However let me return to a few of the evaluations I’ve carried out of different deadly motion. Oftentimes, when the Division of Protection takes a strike towards a terrorist in Yemen or Pakistan or wherever, you watch a video of fellows totally armed with AK-47s and sidearms and bombs and also you identify it, and so they’re on their strategy to do one thing horrible.
And, on this occasion, you could have had dangerous guys. I’ve little doubt that these guys had been concerned within the operating of medicine. Now, whether or not they had been operating it to america or Europe is yet one more query.
However, in that occasion, these guys had been about to die. Had america simply walked away, their little piece of wooden would have gone below the waves.
And as many instances as Tom Cotton could say that it doesn’t matter what they had been doing, it issues basically what they had been doing, as a result of, below the regulation – and if you happen to spent quarter-hour in regulation college, you already know this – below the regulation, if somebody has been struck and is – continues to have interaction in hostilities, factors a gun at you, has a gun, they might be a respectable goal.
But when they’re exterior of fight, they don’t seem to be, and attacking them is a violation of the legal guidelines of struggle. And these guys – and that is why the American individuals must see this video. These guys had been – had been barely alive…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … a lot much less partaking in hostilities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the DOD Legislation of Conflict Handbook appears to hinge lots of that on whether or not the individual is wholly disabled from preventing, and that’s the place the secretary of protection has used language saying they’re about to return to the battle.
I’m going to play for you what Secretary Hegseth stated on the Reagan Discussion board Saturday. He described what was occurring with these 4 strikes on the alleged drug operating boat.
(Start VT)
PETE HEGSETH (U.S. Protection Secretary): A pair hours later, I used to be informed, hey, there needed to be a reattack, as a result of there have been a pair people that would nonetheless be within the battle, entry to radios. There was a link-up level of one other potential boat. Medicine had been nonetheless there. They had been actively interacting with them, needed to take that reattack.
I stated: “Roger. Sounds good.”
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does what Hegseth stated match what Admiral Bradley informed you?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, there was lots of lack of readability over precisely what Pete Hegseth’s function right here was.
However Pete Hegseth has no credibility on this matter, proper? Bear in mind, per week after this strike, there was a briefing for Congress. Why was a follow-up strike taken? The reply then, within the first week of September, was, a follow-up strike was taken as a result of we wanted to clear the wreckage in order that there wasn’t a hazard to navigation.
That was rationalization primary. Clarification quantity two, proper earlier than we watched the video, was that they could have had a radio, and so they might need been radioing a ship, and so they might need been attempting to get well the cocaine. After which, while you really watch the video, you notice they don’t have a radio. They’re barely hanging on and never slipping beneath the waves.
Then, we get this factor of how they’re attempting to proper the boat. This was a few 40-foot boat that had simply been hit with a large piece of munitions. The conflagration in all probability destroyed all the things in that boat. However, oh, possibly they could have swum below, gotten a radio, in all probability waterlogged, and radioed a ship that we’re not even certain was there.
So what we’ve had is a collection of shifting explanations, oh, and together with the fog of struggle, proper? You recognize that Hegseth stated, effectively, they took the second strike due to the fog of struggle.
There was no fog. The army watched this boat very fastidiously – or I shouldn’t even say boat. They watched the wreckage of the boat very fastidiously for an extended time frame earlier than they took the second strike.
So, look, what Pete Hegseth says about this strike has zero credibility at this level.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you might have confidence in Admiral Bradley?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: You recognize, Admiral Bradley, this was my first assembly with him. Anybody who has ever labored with Admiral Bradley will let you know that he has a storied profession and that he’s a person of deep, deep integrity. And, frankly, I’ve no cause to doubt that.
What it raises is, what occurs when an apparently good man like Admiral Bradley is positioned in a context the place he is aware of that, if he countermands an order that he’s maybe uncomfortable with, it is rather doubtless that he might be fired, when he works for a man, Pete Hegseth, who wrote a e-book about how we shouldn’t observe the legal guidelines of struggle, about how we have to be deadly, et cetera.
It’s attention-grabbing to consider how an excellent man in that context possibly does one thing that, if he weren’t in that context, he may not do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, Senator Tom Cotton, the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, stated there have been dozens of JAG attorneys observing all of this.
On NBC this morning, he stated all 11 individuals on the suspected drug smuggling boat had been legitimate targets as a result of the U.S. had excessive confidence they had been a part of a overseas terrorist group.
Are you aware, had been these high-level cartel members?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: No, after all not. In fact not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who had been they? If the U.S. had excessive confidence…
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: You suppose Pablo Escobar again – effectively, initially, initially, let’s be tremendous clear about this.
I don’t suppose we knew the identities of any of the individuals within the boat. We’d have identified one or two. I don’t know. However we actually didn’t know the identities of all 11. So no one can characterize who all these individuals in any of those boats are.
Now, I’ve sufficient confidence within the intelligence neighborhood to know that these are in all probability not guys out fishing or guys out, you already know, being vacationers and stuff. They’re nearly actually operating medication. However this actually issues, given that you stated.
You recognize, if you happen to’re going to occupy an immense quantity of the American Naval fight functionality, you’d prefer to imagine that you simply’re going after the leaders, the cartel leaders…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … the – the kingpins, as they are saying.
What we’re doing right here is, we’re taking out the equal of the nook drug seller within the Bronx, proper, which, by the way in which, we should always arrest the nook drug seller within the Bronx. However the principle cause we do that’s to go after the kingpins, who, I promise you, are sitting in very comfy villas proper now in Colombia and Venezuela and all over the place, and watching as…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: … a lot of america Navy is devoted to taking out their lowest-level staff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I hear you saying they weren’t on an inside army goal checklist for high-value people. That’s what I hear what you’re saying.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, that is an attention-grabbing query. I’m under no circumstances satisfied that there’s a checklist of people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Now, that is what we do within the terrorism world, proper? We designate high-value targets, we designate people.
I’ve no cause to imagine, and, the truth is, I doubt that there are any people on an inventory anyplace. What we’re doing – and I’m not going to get terribly particular about it, for apparent causes, however what we’re doing is we’re selecting up that this boat could also be carrying medication.
And, to the administration, it doesn’t matter who’s in that boat, as a result of – – and, look, they’re saying this – as a result of, if this boat is definitely carrying medication, then we will strike it. So, no, I don’t suppose there’s a checklist of people. I don’t suppose we now have any concept who exactly the people in these boats are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, as I perceive it, these are signature strikes. That is an intelligence evaluation based mostly on indicators intelligence saying that is who we imagine these people to be.
You recognize, a few of these defenders of the Trump coverage, like conservative columnists, have argued it is a precedent that was set by the Obama administration, which used signature strikes to kill alleged al Qaeda operatives, together with a U.S. citizen at one level in Yemen.
Have they got a degree right here that the drone coverage has lengthy allowed the killing of suspected criminals even with out due course of?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Properly, there’s a few actually essential distinctions.
And also you’ll do not forget that the Obama administration, there was lots of debate over whether or not signature strikes had been OK or not. Crucial distinction is that Congress approved the struggle on terror. There was an authorization for the usage of army power.
The unique sin of this complete factor – whether or not you suppose we ought to be losing these guys or not, the unique sin is that there isn’t a congressional authorization. After which, within the Obama administration, they did have an inventory of people, proper, typically high-value targets, or HVTs, as we’ve referred to them.
After which the query was, in case you have an HVT, a high-value goal, in a jeep in Northern Pakistan, and there’s a man subsequent to that HVT, you already know, how do you are feeling about taking that strike? You wish to take down the high- worth man, however what concerning the younger man subsequent to him? Properly, the younger man has an AK-47, and the younger man was really arranging for the switch of explosives.
You could have that dialog, and you then determine whether or not you’re going to take the strike, proper? Now what we’re doing – and, once more, don’t – I don’t suppose that there’s an inventory of people anyplace. They’re simply saying, that boat is carrying medication. And regardless that army just isn’t approved by the Congress of america, we’re taking out the boat, and we don’t give a rattling about who’s on it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, and while you say “I don’t think,” you’re a member of the Gang of Eight, so, presumably, that data ought to be shared with you if it does exist.
I wish to ask you earlier than I allow you to go. Signalgate, individuals could keep in mind just a few months in the past that Trump – a Trump official added a journalist to a web based group on Sign and shared superior data of an upcoming bombing operation in Yemen.
The Pentagon inspector normal stated Hegseth’s actions risked operational safety and violated federal legal guidelines on document maintaining. Hegseth stated he’d do the identical factor once more. Are your Republican colleagues saying in non-public that they’ve issues with what occurred?
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Completely, they’re saying it in non-public.
In public, after all, they’re saying that it was excellent exoneration, proper, that this report – and also you learn the important thing line, that this report that stated that the secretary of protection put his troops and the mission in danger, that that’s whole exoneration.
Now, I didn’t hear the remark about: I’d do that once more.
But when Pete Hegseth stated he would do this once more – and, look, once more, you don’t have to be a army skilled to know that sharing operational particulars earlier than an operation is a very, actually, actually dangerous concept. If Pete Hegseth stated that, that he would do this once more, you already know, he’s simply reinforcing what everyone knows, which is that he has completely no enterprise in that job.
One of the delicate and troublesome jobs to do in america authorities is being carried out by any individual who put his personal individuals and the mission in danger.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He stated he lives life with out remorse on the Reagan Discussion board. That was the phrase, to be extra precise.
However, Congressman Himes, at all times good to have you ever on this system. I must go away it there for at the moment.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For a take a look at some current modifications to U.S. public well being coverage, we’re joined now by former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He additionally serves on the boards of Pfizer and UnitedHealthcare.
Welcome again.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): Thanks.
They’re now recommending delaying the dose till a baby is 2 months outdated, as a substitute of inside 24 hours of start. What does this choice imply for households of newborns?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure.
Properly, look, I feel we first want to know why we give that start dose of the vaccine, as a result of the concept of giving a vaccine to a new child, to lots of dad and mom, sounds discomforting, that the very first thing a baby goes to face once they’re born goes to be a vaccine inside the first 24 hours.
For a kid over the age of 5, in the event that they develop hepatitis B an infection, in the event that they’re uncovered to it, they’re going to have a 95 % probability of clearing that an infection, and so they’ll go on to develop lifelong immunity.
For kids between the ages of 1 and 5, they solely have a few 25 to 50 % probability of clearing the an infection. So, about 25 to 50 % of children will develop power an infection, and a few quarter of them will go on to die from hepatitis B in the event that they’re between the ages of 1 and 5. So kids are extra susceptible to this virus and might’t clear the an infection.
However, while you’re speaking a few new child, an toddler, 90 % of newborns who turn out to be contaminated – and so they’ll turn out to be contaminated throughout supply – will go on to develop power an infection. They gained’t be capable to clear the hepatitis B. And about 25 % of them will die from sequelae of that an infection both from liver illness, cirrhosis or from liver most cancers.
So we now have this distinctive alternative by giving this start dose and the following inoculations to just about get rid of the possibility {that a} new child can contract hepatitis B and go on to develop power an infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: It’s nearly 99 % efficient at stopping that power an infection. And the chorus is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And…
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: And one last level. The chorus is – oh, sorry, please.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no. And this choice now could be to attend two months earlier than giving that dose.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president of america got here out and stated, this was superb as a result of hep B is simply transmitted sexually or by way of soiled needles.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure, look, that’s the issue. That’s merely not true.
The very fact is, there’s a chorus that, if you happen to simply check the mothers throughout – whereas they’re pregnant, you’ll be able to detect whether or not they have hepatitis B, and, if they’ve hepatitis B, you proceed to present that start dose.
However the actuality is, many mothers don’t get examined, regardless that they intend to. Many instances, these check outcomes aren’t checked. And the assessments themselves have a false detrimental charge, that means they’re going to say you don’t have hepatitis B, when, the truth is, you do, of about 2 %.
That will not sound like loads, however that 2 % goes to translate into at the very least 1,000 infants being born and getting contaminated with hepatitis B. There was one modeling estimate that estimated, within the first 12 months of this new steerage, there’s going to be 1,400 kids, infants contracting hepatitis B.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: And, once more, 25 % of them will die from that an infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, we take a look at this as a result of there may be this broader scrutiny of vaccines proper now by the Trump administration.
And, on this board choice, which the general public might pay attention into, it was publicly broadcast, the board was handpicked by RFK Jr., who’s a skeptic right here of vaccines. From those that voted towards the choice to delay, one among them who you heard on the high of the present stated, the CDC is doing hurt.
One other stated: “No rational science has been presented, and the committee must accept responsibility when harm is caused.”
These are fairly extraordinary statements. If the group making a call that has such excessive penalties for essentially the most susceptible Individuals isn’t basing it on science, no rational science, what does that point out about what comes subsequent?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Properly, look, that is – the ACIP, by and enormous, apart from a handful of members, are anti-vax activists who had been put there to hold out a particular agenda.
And, look, the secretary, to his credit score, has been very sincere about what his intentions are right here. He’s essentially the most outstanding anti-vaxxer within the nation previous to coming into this place, and he acknowledged that his aim is to get rid of childhood immunization or many of those childhood immunizations.
And I feel they’re going to take a methodical strategy and slowly chip away at this. This can be a large unforced error, insofar as ACIP was a esteemed physique that lots of states tie their very own decision-making to. And what we’re seeing proper now could be, as a bunch, it’s being degraded, and I don’t suppose it should ever be restored.
I don’t suppose you’ll be able to simply flip the swap and restore this the place persons are going to abruptly respect its choices once more. There’s about 600 state legal guidelines that had been tied to choices ACIP made. About 17 states have already handed new laws saying they may not respect the selections of ACIP.
The insurers got here out and stated they’re going to tie their very own protection choices to the skilled our bodies, just like the American Academy of Pediatrics, and never ACIP.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: So, I feel, in time, ACIP goes to be totally degraded as a decision-making physique, and it’s going to be extra symbolic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: There might be sure states that – that adhere to it, however will probably be extra symbolic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you – this week, we noticed an enormous dump in biotech shares following these studies that the FDA, which you used to run on the first a part of the Trump administration, is now going to require one research to clinch approval of vaccines.
You had been one of many former commissioners who put out this actually extraordinary editorial in “The New England Journal of Medicine” arguing that the FDA and high vaccine regulator Dr. Vinay Prasad are altering insurance policies in a approach that’s going to decelerate new and higher vaccines.
What particularly is the issue you see? As a result of this isn’t simply hep B. That is the vaccines of the long run you’re saying simply gained’t be created.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Proper.
So, Vinay Prasad, who’s the pinnacle of the Biologics Middle, additionally oversees the vaccine division, he additionally has been appointed the pinnacle of biostatistics, the chief medical officer of the company and chief scientific officer – so he occupies lots of positions – put out a memo saying that they’re going to dispose of or transfer away from what they name immunobridging research.
These are research that enable you, for well-validated vaccines just like the flu vaccine, to have the ability to show annually that the vaccine – the brand new vaccine that’s formulated towards a circulating pressure can elicit antibodies which are efficient towards that individual pressure, and that might be the idea of approval, somewhat than requiring new final result research yearly to show that the vaccine really reduces the incidence of influenza.
For established vaccines, the place we all know that antibody manufacturing is an effective correlate for immunity, this has been a longstanding observe. It’s – we do it for flu vaccine. We do it in COVID actually. We do it for issues like pneumococcal vaccine, the vaccine for pneumococcal illness, the place we take a look at serotypes, circulating bacterial serotypes.
This permits us to replace vaccines as these viral and bacterial strains change and because the composition of the strains change in time to supply safety for the autumn respiratory season. In the event that they transfer away from this, which is what he stated they plan to do, we’re simply not going to have the ability to replace vaccines every season, as we’ve carried out traditionally, to accommodate regardless of the circulating pressure is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And 12 former FDA commissioners got here out saying they’re deeply involved about what is going on.
That memo that made clear the modifications which are occurring inside the FDA from Dr. Prasad was obtained by CBS, and it claimed that profession FDA workers are making modifications partly as a result of they discovered at the very least 10 kids have died after and due to receiving the COVID vaccine, referred to it as a profound revelation, and stated – and requested, did it kill extra wholesome children than it saved?
The administration so far has not backed up data to again up these claims, however – however what questions do you might have for the FDA commissioner? As a result of they’re arguing they’re doing this to assist individuals.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Sure, look, effectively, initially, one factor doesn’t move from the following.
So, the concept if, the truth is, they discovered instances the place the COVID vaccine was linked to tragic deaths, it doesn’t then observe that you simply make these coverage modifications. The truth is, the coverage modifications wouldn’t deal with what their considerations are associated to the COVID vaccine itself.
These are – each case must be fastidiously adjudicated. It’s tragic to see any suspected case that might be linked to a vaccine. And these had been checked out beforehand by the FDA, and I don’t imagine that the brand new FDA had entry to the case stage information.
Evaluation of instances, particular person instances that get filed with the company the place there’s a dying in proximity to vaccination, and a few of these are filed by the producers themselves, are very subjective and require the great will the individuals concerned in that.
And so I feel that they need to make that evaluation public…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: … so it might be scrutinized and folks can get consolation in it.
They’ve already backed away from the ten. There’s reporting from Endpoints that now…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: … they’re saying it’s eight or 9. So, they’re already backing away from it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
And HHS stated they may finally make that information public. We’ll search for it when it comes out.
Dr. Gottlieb, thanks in your evaluation at the moment.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our Lesley Stahl spoke with Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene about her relationship with President Trump for 60 Minutes.
(Start VT)
LESLEY STAHL: I’m going to ask you about this nearly strong help he has amongst Republicans in Congress. Is there in that help concern? Does the help come about as a result of they’re afraid that they may get dying threats?
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-Georgia): I feel they’re terrified to step out of line and get a nasty TRUTH Social put up on them, sure.
LESLEY STAHL: And so they’re watching what occurred to you.
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Sure.
LESLEY STAHL: Behind the scenes, do they speak in another way?
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Sure.
LESLEY STAHL: How?
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: Oh, it’s – it could shock individuals.
LESLEY STAHL: Properly, let’s shock individuals.
REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE: OK.
I watched a lot of my colleagues go from making enjoyable of him, making enjoyable of how he talks, making enjoyable of me always for supporting him, to, when he gained the first in 2024, all of them began, excuse my language, Lesley, kissing his ass and determined to placed on a MAGA hat for the primary time.
(Finish VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You possibly can see extra of Lesley’s interview tonight on 60 Minutes at 7:00 p.m. Jap.
We might be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us at the moment. Thanks all for watching.
Till subsequent week, for Face the Nation, I’m Margaret Brennan.
Face The Nation TranscriptsMore
Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Dec. 7, 2025
Transcript: Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Dec. 7, 2025
Transcript: Rep. Ilhan Omar on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Dec. 7, 2025
Transcript: Scott Gottlieb on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Dec. 7, 2025
Transcript: Rep. Jim Himes on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Dec. 7, 2025
